I just watched Till I hear you sing from LND...and I have to admit...it's a catchy tune...in fact...it's pretty good...Ramin is an excellant singer...but...I still don't like the storyline to LND...Manhattan?!...It just blows my mind...and it's confusing...

I just had the most HORRIBLE/awesome thought. This new mess is going to be set in NYC in 1906, right? Ragtime/LND crossovers. I want one. A good one. Preferably with Emma bitching out Erik at some point.

Ok, here we go........... Erik, say it with me now, Erik..... NOT Erick............. lol Erik Jareth_baby2010

OMG!!! I just listend to Coney Island Waltz....... I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!! Look,don't kill me, but.... i'm startin 2 like LND....At least the music,might I say......... I still don't have the soundtrack, but I like it, I really do.....

Soundtrack hasn't been released yet. Theoretically it's all finished, but they're not distributing until the show officially opens. I'm doing what I can to see if I can get hold of any leaked copies.

Well, I read an artical that the soundtrack is being shiped in a few days..........

Well, according to amazon.co.uk the soundtrack's release date is
March 10, 2010. It's possible that there may be one or two leaked copies making the rounds throughout the internet, but these are NOT legal or authorized, and I have yet to run across any of them.

lol...Erik...Anyway...I was reading about Phantom of Manhattan and at the end...Christine dies!!! And Pierre is the phantom and christine's child and pierre goes to live with Erik while Raoul goes back to France to bury christine...LOUSY ENDING...LOUSY STORY! Although ALW said he was changing a few things so...I don't know...ERG! I watched Till I hear you sing and it sounds SO GOOD! I don't know...I need to go listen to phantom of the opera...I'm bored...and sad...

lol...Erik...Anyway...I was reading about Phantom of Manhattan and at the end...Christine dies!!! And Pierre is the phantom and christine's child and pierre goes to live with Erik while Raoul goes back to France to bury christine...LOUSY ENDING...LOUSY STORY! Although ALW said he was changing a few things so...I don't know...ERG! I watched Till I hear you sing and it sounds SO GOOD! I don't know...I need to go listen to phantom of the opera...I'm bored...and sad...

Well, they changed the son's name to Gustave in the musical version, but yes, I have a feeling that he will be E/C's love child (argh). As for Christine's death, I don't think that they'll keep that in the sequel. Something tells me that the Phantom will get his happily ever after after all. Bleh.

The whole thing is just ridiculous. I really have no idea what the hell possessed ALW.

I'd love to see Erik and Christine together...but this sequel...is just wrong...There shouldn't even be a sequel! Yea...But I know ALW said he made changes to the story because Forsythe backed out because apparently he was not into romance...I don't know where I heard that though...I think I saw it on a website somewhere...Did anyone answer the pick asking if you thought Erik raped Christine?...Eww...Thats just wrong...

Actually Jareth_baby...that was my pick question. The subject has been coming up on a lot of the other boards lately (frankly the idea of it pisses me off beyond reason). It seems to be pretty well gospel in people's heads that the little brat belongs to Erik. The $10,000 question is f***king how?! There are pretty much two schools of thought. 1. ZOMG They ttly had teh hawt sechs!!!11!! Which, makes absolutely no damned sense in the context of the original plot progression. Really. and 2. Erik raped Christine somewhere between when she ripped off his mask (again) and Final Lair. While there IS a costume change for Christine at that point, which has led to all kinds of speculation as to what happened between her being in the DJT dress and the wedding dress. I'm personally of the opinion that, although severely disturbed and highly dangerous, Erik still has some limits. Especially when it comes to Christine. While he is a bit rough with her during the first part of Final Lair, he never actually HURTS her. Even in the novel when she tears off his mask, he doesn't injure her, he grabs her hands and uses her fingernails to cause harm to himself instead. The only reason she ended up tied to a chair while Raoul and the Persian were in the torture chamber was because she had tried to kill herself by slamming her head against the wall. He restrained her to keep her from causing herself injury. When she complained that her wrists hurt to get free and steal the "little bag of life and death" he seemed genuinely remorseful that he had (even indirectly) caused harm to her, insisting that her chaffed wrists were enough cause for him to be worthy of death. I simply cannot see him violating and harming her in such a physical manner. He loved her. Worshiped her, even. There's no way! I just wanted to see what people on here thought about it.

All right...half an hour down and i'm finally up to speed. I think my eyes are going to fall out of my skull...

I only recently discovered that Love Never Dies even existed and quite frankly I feel compelled to say. Not. Happy. Why exactly does the sequel devastate me? Can we count the reasons? (although, after nine pages, i'm sure they've all been listed) A tragedy is supposed to be just that. Leroux's original novel (and the original ALW musical) did not leave you lighthearted and giddy, the emotions they evoked were far more powerful. Raw and richly powerful feelings of hurt, loss, and pain, something much more compelling than the so cliche Disney worthy happy ending. Would anyone remember Romeo and Juliet if the two love birds had ran away and spent their lives hopping jovially through fields of daisies? NO!

Unfortunately, this candy sweet ending is what I see in store for us with LND. Somehow I can't help but predict that we will see a happy ending for Erik (err..hey Andrew, did someone forget to tell you he died?) I won't pretend I'm not a E/C shipper (here it comes, please don't egg my house) but I think I would prefer to leave this phan girl crazy at just that, silly fantasies that I can indulge through self published Phics and the Susan Kay novel I hold so dearly to my heart. I love the tragedy of the Leroux's novel, does Webber not realise that well he tries to weave an ill fitting happy ending he is really destroying what originally drew so many Phantom fans in? Dear god, why can't we just leave well enough alone!

Ok...i've vented. As for the issue of Christine and Erik's love child, I still like to assume that the...err..baby making, was consensual. I'm going to go with Kay (as I can't really conjure another plausible way)Erik would not rape Christine. It's not even debatable in my mind. No. Just no. Kay's idea of Christine going back to Erik after the fact (although not fitting with the original book) Does it work? NO. Does it make sense? NO! Are they going to have to come up with something? It would seem that way. After all, they obviously aren't concerned about the sequel staying coherent with the original, they can swing it any way.

Yea...it's really confusing...There was not enough time for them to do anything between past the point of no return and the final lair scene. To me, LND just seems to be making phantom of the opera...dirty...I just can't see any of the characters from phantom of the opera doing anything that they are doing in LND...and when I read about phantom of manhattan, I don't like the idea of Erik becoming greedy and wanting power and money...I mean I guess it's possible he may like the idea of being powerful...but...it just doesn't seem right...and in LND... When the phantom secretly gives Christine lessons again...wouldn't Christine be suspicious of these lessons she's getting from an unknown person? She must be really dumb not to suspect anything...I wonder what Leroux would do if he were alive and heard of LND...I don't know if I said this already but...In 1919 they made a phantom of the opera silent film and Leroux disliked it so much he had all copies burned... I think I'm going to read the book again...I haven't read it in two years...

O Great Tubby One! Please reach from Beyond to deliver unto Andrew the right bitch smacking he deserves!
In the Angel of Music's name we pray thee,
Amen.

Ok, enough of me being strange.
I will admit that Erik can be a lil bit of a tyrant. I mean, he DID kind of have issues with the challenge of his absolute will, whether from the management of the Opera, the Persian being nosey, Raoul uhm, well, existing, or even from Christine herself. If things didn't go as he liked, he could be an absolute brat and react absolutely beyond reason. I mean, I adore the man, and he obviously lacked the needed social interaction during developmental years to make him sane and adjusted, but still. There really isn't a good defense for most lashing out to such destructive degrees. (Unless you count insanity. But that only serves to move you from one type of government detention facility to another) Even so, I've never viewed a lust for power as one of Erik's driving motivations. Sure, he likes to be in control, but I think he would rather be as untouched by society as possible, rather than seeking to subserviate it. I mean, think about it. If the man was so damned bent on frigging power and wealth, why would he have contented himself to stop with control of the Palais Garnier? Obviously the man is a genius, as well as having talents in multiple fields of expertise. If he had gathered the correct go-betweens to act as figureheads or front men so the public at large would never know what he looked like, it isn't unreasonable to assume that the man could have achieved as much power as he wished. Threats, blackmail, and money will grease an awful lot of wheels, and men who understand how to manipulate other men can get away with almost anything. So, stubborn control freak, yes. Uber megalomaniac of DOOM, not so much.
As to the greed thing. Yeah, he did exploit the management for 20,000 francs a month. I did a quick google search (once again, research is your friend! ^_^ ) and the first answer I came across noted that 20 francs = $4 in the 1800s. I don't know which PART of the 1800s, but this is just some rough figure work, so I'm not going to be overly anal about it. So that would make Erik's allowance from the management equal to about $400 a month. According to the inflation calculator (also found easily on google) that equates to $8,816.36 in terms of today's money. So, that's a pretty decent amount for a monthly allowance. A little over 100,000 a year. Quite comfortable, but by no means insanely rich. He probably could have gotten away with a lot more. According to a 2004 NY Times article, the operating budget for the Opera Bastille today (where most of the operas are now housed. The Palais Garnier mostly performs ballets now) is about $200 million. (The article in question link ) So, yeah, 100,000 a year is not really that much in comparison. So, the greed thing, sorry, Andy, not buying it.
Really a shame when 15 minutes of research can completely defunct the entire character concept, isn't it?

dude,its cunfusing! I mean, if Erik gets his happily ever after he deserves, what about the kid? will he have to start his life over? Will Christene legily devorse Raul???? ( we both have a way of saying Raul aka Raoul, guys lol) I mean, I'm getting really confused here.... And, ALW says Erik lives below everything again, so where does he live,THE SEWER????? I've been to NYC, and I think no matter what time period, I think its impossible to live below New York City without being caught and/or going to prison for living down there......... And since Erik runs a freak show on Coney island, he whould HAVE to live near it....( well, he whoulden't REALLY have to, but you whould think he whould......) And since SOOOOOOOOOOOO many people went there, you whould think he whould get caught!!! Come on, Andy, show your stuff already...................

It's spelled "Christine" and although we do both appear to have different ways of spelling "Raoul", mine has the distinction of being correct, while yours is not. I'm still waiting to see hard evidence from you to support your spelling, and until I see it, I'm not going to let up on you. Your spelling is horrific to begin with, but you should at the very least be able to spell the character's names properly!
Either way, at the turn of the century there would have been no high tech surveillance equipment, so I can see absolutely no reason why it would not be possible for Erik to set up shop under the city. Although I do think it's a rather stupid idea.

Look... I almost always spell Christine correct. I was in a hurry..... And also I'm so used to speaking in text, I sometimes spell things incorrectly on a keyboard... And FYI, I have NEVER had anything below an A- on any of my reportcards........ Now do you get it??????? I'm not GREAT with the keyboard........

*Has a great many retorts. All of which just make her sound like even more of a bitter old crone.* All right. How about a compromise? I promise not to give you grief about the typing if you make a conscious effort to spell all of the main character's names--especially Raoul--correctly. Deal?
I can understand occasional slip-ups and typos, and I do appreciate the fact that some people still chicken peck their keyboards. (although I thought that keyboarding classes were now mandatory in schools. I know I had to take one in middle school and the combination of that and a LOT of para-RPing helped my typing skills by leaps and bounds.) However, I find consistent misspellings of names absolutely unforgivable and a touch disrespectful as it is someone's name.

*sigh* We gave you evidence. It is Raoul. That's all there is to it.

Next year there is typing classes. But can I just say this? Raoul aka Raul???????? And I know, I know, the Christine thing WAS a typo.......But just 1 little mistake won't hurt, will it Phantomess?????????????????? Now then, I will be looking at more info on LND, and then I will show you my report-card grades to prove that I'm a straight A student! BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! Yep, there is a box I can find that I can dig my report cards out of........ ;)!!!!!!!!!!

1st Grade Spelling A+. Reading A+. Math A. Grammar A- Social-Studies A. 2nd Grade Spelling A. Reading A-. Math A+.Grammar A- Social-Studies A+. 3rd Grade Spelling A+. Reading A+. Math A-. Grammar A. Social-Studies A. 4th Grade Spelling A. Reading A. Math A-. Grammar A+. Social-Studies A. Well, that is all the report cards I could find. It might be because I liked to sort things out a lot........ But I'll keep looking for the others.

I absolutely did not understand "Raoul aka Raul" Please clarify. Are you upset because you still think I'm wrong, even though JH and I have proven (with multiple examples) that I'm not? Or are you trying to say that it isn't a big deal? I don't understand.
The Christine misspelling was a mistake. That's fine. The problem is that since you insist upon spelling Raoul's name incorrectly I assumed you had done the same thing with Christine's name. But, obviously, you're spelling it correctly now, so it was a typo. My mistake.
Finally: I do not doubt that you have straight As. I, too, went through the American public education system. There's a very good reason I became epically disenchanted with it. As are not difficult to achieve. Especially since research is criminally easy to half-a**. I wonder if they even teach how to write up a proper bibliography anymore....*muses*
At any rate, I, like the rest of the real world, could not care less if you have all As or all Cs. My concern is the practical application of the cognitive abilities you are supposedly absorbing, and the ability to retain information past needing it for some standardized test.
Apologies for any extra bitterness I may be heaping into this. I choose to blame the current book I'm reading, The Dumbest Generation. It's actually a very interesting read, if anyone cares. It outlines how the bombardment of screen stimuli is eroding the cognitive abilities of America's youth. The chapter on the decline in reading is especially depressing.
Yeah, I'm a nerd.

Anyhow....
Back on topic!
New rumours? Interviews? Pirated audios or photos?

*pretends not to see the "back on topic" post*

Grades don't always accurately represent one's intelligence and ability to learn. I could get straight A's too...I'd be in a math class at my grade level! (IMO, me getting a B in a junior level math class is worth more than Person X getting an A in a freshman level math class.)

Just saying... :X

Well...I have not heard anything new...As for pirated videos...I think on youtube you can find a pirated video of phantom of the opera with Sarah Brightman and Micheal Crawford...It's really crappy though...you can't see all that much...Well...I'm off...I really don't know what else to say...Has anyone heard any news on ALW and his cancer? Did he get the surgery already?

I meant of LND. I'm just waiting for the leak of the Sydmonton preview. There are some half decent boots of Michael out there if you look. I have one of him and Dale that isn't bad at all.
I haven't really been keeping up with ALW's cancer. Last I heard he was going to be a-ok in the long run.

Raoul...TA DA!!!!!! But I still pronounce it Raul.And have I ever mentioned that I'm an un-known opera singer? Please believe me,I'm telling the truth. I'm still trying to get an agent, and I'm going to send videos to contests and stuff.But really, I don't lie. Ask anyone I know...... Some info about my singing: I got into opera when I found POTO ( A light opera) and I'm a soprano.And people say when I compete, I sound like Sarah Brightman, and when I'm just singing for a crowd,Emmy Rossum. I don't know why, but most of the people I know think Sarah's singing sounds cleaner than Emmy's. You know, just with the flow (there is nothing wrong with Emmy's voice, it's really lovely)

link

Make sure you have your volume up.

And of course, eveyone in the POTO fandom is an un-known [sic] opera singer...

"I wonder if they even teach how to write up a proper bibliography anymore....*muses*"

They don't. At least, not in Idaho.

And, um, The Phantom of the Opera is NOT AN OPERA.

I doubt you sound like Sarah Brightman. I really, really doubt it. I know people who can sing better than Emmy Rossum, so I don't doubt that one.

And, like JH said: everyone in the Phandom is an unknown singer.

Heck, I'm an unknown singer/actress/musician/performer. If you have ever sung in anything and wish to have a singing career, you are an unkown singer.

So does most of the fandom. Thank you ALW for that one. Still doesn't change the spelling.
*digs her claws into her arms and tells herself she will not be drawn into the "POTO is an opera" argument.*
*Bites her teeth into the side of her lip until she tastes blood to keep from starting in on the Emmy vs Sarah argument*
*starts shaking from trying to play nice-nice*
*Gives the f*** up*
Name ten operas. Real ones. Without using Wiki or google. (as most titles are in foreign languages I won't expect perfect spelling)
Tell me what a lyric soprano is. And the difference between a mezzo, an alto, and contralo. Again, without using the wikis.
Explain to me the difference between actual opera and Opera Comique. Explain why Gilbert and Sullivan are operettas and not actual opera.
When you can do this, THEN I will take you seriously.
And I would like to third the motion that all phans are unknown performers. It's like the line from the Rains version: "Every violinist has written a concerto!"

I agree with everyone who stated everyone on here is an unknown singer...and...I did read somewhere in a book I borrowed from the library about music that phantom of the opera is not an opera...I'll have to borrow it again to see what it said about phantom of the opera...but I know it said it is not an opera...I like both Emmy and Sarah...Sarah has a more unique voice though...I don't know why some people don't like her but...that's just my opinion...Well...I'm out of here. :)

Thats why I said LIGHT opera. Light opera my dear, means that it contains spoken,and sung dialoge. And I SING opera,not study opera.

The absolute shortest version of POTO is not real opera is the fact that actual grand opera has zero spoken lines. It is completely sung through. POTO has a few spoken lines. There are some other things that separate the two, but that is the easiest to note.
"Apart from predating musicals by 400 years or so, operas generally feature fuller, more sophisticated orchestration. Furthermore, there are no amplification devices in opera. Every note is played or sung live." Taken from an article on seattleopera.org. I know damned skippy that the "Secure"s the police shout before DJT is pre-recorded because it is exactly the same regardless of the city you see it in. I.E. same voices/pitch/duration/timing regardless of whether you're seeing the show in NYC, Tampa, or Des Moines. I also know that Why So Silent is pre-recorded. And we all know they're mic-ed.

^Commenting to the above individual known as phantomphan24, if you sing opera then you most certainly should study it. It makes you sound quite ignorant otherwise. Further more, POTO is not an opera or a "light" opera. I'm not even sure if such a term exists. The closest thing to a "light" opera would be an opera buffa, a comedy. Otherwise, I personally have never heard such a term.

No one gives a rat's ass if you think you sound like Sarah Brightman. Hell, I don't think anyone here cares that you're an opera singer. It's actually very arogant for you to assume that we'll be so in awe of your great talent and your fountain of information that you've bestowed upon us. Do us all a favor, and please be quite unless you have something to say about the discussion at hand and don't talk about yourself.

TGIPC, you are my hero of the day! *hands you delicious pie for your awesomeness*

Phantomphan24. You are officially on notice. I have been extremely well behaved towards your foolishness thus far. But every single time I offer you informed advice or hard evidence to help you not look like so much of a complete ignorant ass, you slap me down and proceed to make yourself look even more foolish than before. I'm rather sick of it. Now, either do your damned research before you open your ignorant mouth, or get the hell out of my phandom!

*is too lazy to think of good retort*

^ What the two awesome people above me said. ;)

So... um.... sequel! Yeah, the sequel.

There hasn't really been any news lately.

Yeah, not really. I'm surprised they're not forcing more publicity down our throats for it already. I mean, the previews start at the end of Feb.

*enters thread looks round*

There still making this shit? ¬_¬

*leaves*

*bows quickly and scuries back to topic*

I think one of the things that I'm most afraid of about the sequel is that everyone will know about it. I feel like Phantom is my special thing and I don't want to people to know about such things in my life that's very important to me. I son't want anyone to assume that I'll like it either (I'm known as the "Phantom girl" at my school). I can see the conversation now...

Person: Hey, you know they're making a sequel to Phantom?
Me: 'Course I do.
P: Are you excited?
M: Hell no
P: Oh, I saw it and it was really good. Do you not like Phantom anymore or something.

I'm especially fearful if this turns into a popsical (musical with pop music). I already have enough annoying girls in my grade who love popsicals such as Wicked, Rent, and Billy Elliot and don't know the first thing about theatre. I cringe at the thought of them invading my Phantom.

*hides RENT T-shirt, old tickets, CDs, signed playbill, DVDs, and poster behind back*

I totally know what you mean with the 'your special thing becoming popular' and such. Like with the new Star Trek movie *nerd moment*. Tons of people are like "oh, Spock's so hot," and I'm just thinking "yeah, I knew that three years ago." And then I try to compare one of the actors performance to TOS and they just give me a blank stare...

Popsicles are fine in moderation (There are a few that are guilty pleasures of mine, but at least I know they have no real substance) but the masses of tweenyboppers are taking them too far.
And, trust me, you DON'T want to start me on Star Trek. (Kirk was born in Iowa, goddammit! My home state doesn't have that much going for it! At least give us Riverside!!! And what do you MEAN they're not going to fix the timeline?! *twitch* This is worse than Nemesis....)

I like Wicked and RENT. But as a popsical, not a musical.

No, no, I like Rent and Wicked enough, it's just the complete ignorance of the backgroud that annoys me. For instance, I was talking to this one girl about Rent and I briefly mentioned that it was based off of an opera. She disagreed (God knows why) and I politly corrected her with more information. Then, what does she do? She calls me a smart ass. Now, this is understandable when I go off on a bitchy rant (much like this one) but I was being honest to God sincere. Gah, I hate ignorance.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of it going around. I could post for days the stupid questions I get asked on a daily basis (one of my favourites still has to be "Do you serve grape wine here?" and the genuinely asked "Do the knights really die?!" When I was a wench at Medieval Times.), from fully grown adults. It's really pretty sad.

Wow... *facepalm* Yeah, I must admit a lot RENTheads don't actually know that much about the show. I think after one month in the fandom I was more knowledgeable than some people who were year or more RENT fans.

And I too have a huge list of idiotic comments/questions from kids at my school. (My favorite: "Sagittarius? Is that an STD?" XD ) I know there are some Phantom ones too, but I can't think of them at the moment.

LOL @ the Sagittarius one.
There used to be a list somewhere of all of the really inane Phantom things people said. Unfortunately, I don't think the site exists anymore, and I can't remember which webshrine it was in to find it with the Wayback Machine. It was just this really awesome list of e-mails the webmistress had gotten about various stupid things. Like, "How dare you say Erik killed people! He's totally innocent" and the like. It was a lulz-fest.

EDIT: So, yeah. After hitting a few of the old biggie sites on the Wayback Machine, I actually DID find the page I was thinking of. I remember it being so much more amusing back in '98 when it actually existed...Maybe had something to do with me being 13 at the time. There's still some good ones, though.
link
Leave Simon and Raoul alone!
And you can be religious and still be a phan. The Church of Erik is not for everyone.

So much LULZ, so little time...