Pardon my lack of enthusiasm. *clears thoat* YAY!!!! LND IS LYKE TEH BEST THING EVAR!!!!111 E/C FOREVS!!!

YAYAY!!! i feel the same way.But why just like 12 days ago we were all mad about this? And now we r all like YAYYYYYYYYY!!!!! as i've said, i feel the ssame way. AND IT IS CREEPING ME OUT!

I just downloaded the teaser tracks. Will be listening to them shortly. Trying to keep an open mind about this since there's nothing much I can do to stop it. Still pissed though.

Oh god teaser tracks!!!!? I refuse to listen.

Here's "'Till I Hear You Sing".

I love Ramin's voice and the song isn't bad...but it just doesn't seem that Phantomy... *indifferent shrug*

Which characters are involved in the song? If this is Phantom/Christine I'm not touching it.

The Coney Island Waltz reminds me more of something randomass from Sunset rather than Phantom but *shrug*. The Till I Hear You Sing one is nice I suppose. Just not really Phantom-ish. At least not something I would picture Erik singing. But I will admit to a deep seated bias that would probably rend even the most sublime piece of music utterly blase to my ears. Although I'm fairly confident that a sublime piece of music this ain't. It's pretty, just not moving. Apparently the full cast album is already recorded and ready to clog shelves as of the London opening in March. I'll see what I can't do about scrounging a leaked copy. God only knows that if it exists it's online somewhere. I wouldn't be at all surprised considering the amount of cast recordings that don't even officially exist but are traded to hell and back off the interweb (Lestat or Wildhorn's Dracula anyone?) Soon as I hit on something concrete I'll throw a post up and anyone who wants a copy can IM me.

If it's opening in March I hope to god it's not my birthday. I couldn't think of a worst gift.

VF: Yes, it's fluffy, cheesy E/C. :P

Right. Um thanks I guess. Don't suppose there is any decent Christine/Raoul material in this mess of a musical is there?

I'm E/C and all, but I still detest the idea of the sequel. And just because I'd like E/C to be together, doesn't mean they should, you know?

Finally put my finger on just what it is that seems off about Til I Hear You Sing! I was listening to the OLC walking into work at 4 this morning when I realized that nearly ALL of Erik's bits are with Christine present. And yeah, I'm going to rant psychology and theme at you again so feel free to go ahead and tune out now because I know everyone's sick to death of me rambling about psychology, thematic arcs, and gothic archetypes.
So, in the original stage production Erik has basically no stage time alone. Even in the All I Ask of You Reprise, though he is physically alone, Christine and Raoul's voices are heard echoing offstage (or possibly in his mind.) The point is that the symbolism behind this could indicate that Christine completes him. The only times his presence is made known when she is not immediately present is during the first Notes and the bit with the Marksman before DJT, and even then he is only a disembodied voice, not substantial. The fact that after Christine leaves with Raoul Erik vanishes into the chair also seems to support this notion. Erik is nothing without Christine, so he literally becomes 'nothing' without Christine's presence. This is a powerful image. The fact that I cannot even remotely imagine that Erik would allow someone to witness such a strong moment of weakness leads me to believe that Til I Hear You Sing is performed with him onstage, alone. Thus losing even more of the very good symbolism from the first show. *Weeps at the death of thematic subtlety*

^ Wow, I never even though of that...you're so right.

Okay, link is a really awesome sequel prediction thread on POTO.com and...*winces* Okay, here's a supposed quote from Ted Keegan about the sequel.

"Well, since I haven't been sworn to secrecy yet I suppose it's okay to tell you this. The kid as far as I know is the Phantom's. Of course who would believe that the kid could be Raoul's? And as for the question when was the child conceived? All I will say is--how do you think the Phantom got the wedding dress on Christine? I doubt that she would have complied if he had just handed her the wedding dress and told her to put it on....and that's all I'm going to say."

*eye twitch* I will never look at the Final Lair scene the same way...

EDIT:

Also: link

*shudder*

Wait, what? So now Christine ran off WITH Erik? I am SO confused. Honestly that's probably a misquote because otherwise the Till I Hear You Sing nonsense wouldn't really make that much sense, I suppose....Jebus this reeks of bad fanfic!
And why do I have the sudden horrible, sinking feeling that we just figured out who's playing Meg? AGH!
And JH, I already considered the possibility of what Ted Keegan said a while ago. Logistically it doesn't add up. If the two of them did the horizontal mambo during the costume change between DJT and Final Lair there are a few things that really make no smegging sense. "Am I now to be prey to your lust for flesh?" Pointless question if they just did it. And I would like to think that Christine isn't so utterly ridiculous as to utter the "Pitiful creature of darkness" thing not 15 minutes after he'd raped her. I mean, blah blah Christ comparisons and yadda yadda. Divine power of forgiveness, etc. But that's taking it just WAY too far. Gothic heroines will drive a modern feminist insane half the time just by the nature of their being, but throwing pity on a rapist really crosses some lines I'm not really comfortable with looking at. Not to mention the theory that there is no way to get Christine to wear that dress without physically putting her into it is also flawed. I can think of at least two threats right off the top of my head that would do the trick. "Either you put it on yourself, or I put it on for you!" Variations on "wear this or there's gonna be a dead vicomte" and, of course, there's always the theory that Christine does possess just enough sense that when Erik is clearly pissed off beyond all reason, if he asks you to do something and it isn't going to immediately put you or anyone else in physical peril, you might just not want to argue the point and do it. Save a lot of tears.
Oh, and, actually I -do- believe the kid could be Raoul's. Honestly? I can think of 3 or 4 times in the second act where Christine and Raoul could have slid off and gotten jiggy with their bad selves, not to mention the fact that they probably got married about ten seconds after they left the lair. Show me feasable E/C relations and I will be ok. But in the context of the musical there is absolutely NO WAY for it to make any form of sense.

Yeah,your right. The kid COULD possibly be Raul's.But the phantom in POM being the kid's father does make since.I mean it SHOULD have been Raul's,but I think I know why (forgot his name) did it. Becouse the storyline is PERFECT!!!! Couse why whould Raul and Christene even have a kid if it had nothing to do with the phantom? And now, whould you rather take a bullet for your love, or for your child? The book whould not be the same without the kid being Erik's.And thats just the only way it even makes just the little since that it does.

Raoul. Say it with me now, Raoul
Me, personally? I'd take a bullet for my lover WAAAAY before I'd take one for any brat. I rather detest small children.
Either way the whole thing is still a godawful mess. And I'm STILL waiting to hear exactly when ALW thinks Erik and Christine had the hot smexings. Although I suppose I shouldn't expect much sanity to come from the man who COMPLETELY IGNORED THE ENTIRE FRANCO-PRUSSIAN WAR. So the man never took a history class. I'll just assume he never took a biology one either and he thinks that Christine got preggers off Erik's toilet seat or something stupid like that!

Well if I had a child (witch i don't by the way)i whould have taken the bullet....but thats just my opinon......

i went 2 the 1925 version of POTO last night and they had a real theater pipe organ made in 1928. it was funny becouse the organist said "Well, if you want 2 hear Andrew Lloyd Webber,he was born in 1942 sooooooo don't even think about it." And somebody got out of their chair and said "He ruined the musical!!!!!" The organist asked how. And she said He's making a sequel!!!!!!!!!!!" And i was like, "thats my girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And about the Raoul thing, from what movies of POTO i have seen, Raoul has changed to Raul.....But i know why you call him Raoul,soooooo please don't get mad........

Um, in what versions is Raoul changed to Raul?

1925- Raoul
1943- Anatole & Raoul
1962- Harry
1983- Michael
1989- Richard
1990- Philippe
1998- Raoul
2004- Raoul
David Staller- Raoul
Animated- Raoul
Angel of Music- Raymond/Raoul
Wishbone episode- Raoul

Nope...no Raul. Maybe it's a Spanish version I missed.....

(yeah, yeah, I'm a bitch. I know)

Wow...I have not been on much...Well...Yea it makes no sense that Erick and Christine had a kid...and why would he rape her? He loves her and wouldn't do anything to hurt her...so...why would he rape her? and if Christine and Erick had sex wouldn't you think Erick would be hesitant? I don't know...someone suggested once to me that...if they were to have sex...wouldn't Erick be afraid he wouldn't be able to please Christine because he's never made love to any woman? I don't know...lol...Anyway...I did happen to see "Till I hear you sing" it's okay but I still detest this sequel...Also on youtube theres a premiere thing at her majestys theatre in london or somthing like that...So what's new around here? I'm thinking of reading the book again...What do you think of Ramin Karimloo as the phantom? Who plays Christine?

In the sequel? Sierra Boggess. I have a bootleg of her from the Vegas show. She's not bad. Not really over stellar either, but she's cute and on pitch.
What's going on? Me personally, as far as the sequel goes, I'm bouncing between Depression and Acceptance (with the occasional sojourn all the way back into Bargaining) in the 5 stages of grief, which I just now realized I've been going through since this whole mess started. If you don't know what they are, here ya go:
1. Denial. "Even ALW isn't dumb enough to actually go through with a sequel."
2. Anger. "Oh, dear God he's serious. I'm going to kill him!"
3. Bargaining. "Please! Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease don't do this!!!! Oh sweet Angel of Music, stop him!!!!"
4. Depression. "The phandom is DOOMED."
5. Acceptance. "Well....I suppose at least this time I can get a head start on containing the ignorance. Information on Coney Island, turn-of-the-century NYC, sideshows, and any other information I can see being horribly miscontrued by this sequel for all!"

Hey guys, this is just a shoutout... but i made a club called 1925 version of Phantom of the opera, and i don't really know how to do the banner and images stuff. soooooo if anyone wants to, can they help me??????????

a. You never responded to the "Raul/Raoul" thing. Don't say thing that you can't back up.

b. This could go in picks or answers.

c. ...I'll try to make something, because my stubborn, bitter bitchiness can only be overridden by my love of making graphics.

And, um, apparently we have a Love Never Dies spot? link Whatever. N00bs.

Haha........ Well i'm sorry in the stage version its Raul,and in the 2004 its Raul and in some of the books its Raul.............. There was a book when i was little, and it had a guy named Raoul.... and it kinda creeped me out...( sorry 2 all u Raouls out there,the name dosent bother me eneymore.) Soooooo PLease don't come to me saing " WE LOVE RAOUL!!!!!!" and stap me with a pitch fork ok??? lol

Since I can never jut leave an issue and I always have to be right, here's a little proof. In the stage show it's Raoul. I have "TEH LIBRETTO"! *assorted exclamations of "ooh" and "aah" heard* This is a picture that I took with my webcam.

Phantomess, I think you're rubbing off on me! (Just kidding, you know I love ya....and I was a bitch before I met you.)

Please see next post for more proof.

Screencap from the '04 movie with subtitles on.

Ignore the GIMP down there, the "single window" capture wasn't working. LOL

If you want more proof, I'm sure I could think something up.

No offense intended, I just have to prove my point if I know I'm right. It's one of my major personality flaws, but I love myself for it! (the other is narcissism) ;)

EDIT: I just realized my current motto is pefect for this situation: "If they don't like you, you've gotta be right or you're not worth anything.". I really am a lot like Amber....

link
I give you the OFFICIAL mother f***ing website of the musical!
R A O U L
Just look at the page. It's listed: RIGHT THERE!

link
The IMDB page for the 2004 movie. Oh! Oh, what's that I see in the cast listing? Why I do believe it's RAOUL!

link
Hot damn! Raoul has his own wiki page! R.A.O.U.L. de Chagny.

I've also checked through my comic book versions, the Complete POTO by George Perry, 2 translations of Leroux, my copies of Progengy, Unmasqued (sweet JESUS my eyes!), and the backs of my dvds, just to be sure. All of the versions wherein the romantic hero is named Raoul it is spelled Raoul.
Now, considering that JH and I have just given you a pretty damn good backing of our argument, I would dearly love to see yours. Point me to this source material that says it's Raul. Oh. Please do.
If it is a phan page then know that I am going to laugh at you. Most derisively.

ALW calls it Raul!!!!!!!!

WHEN?! Please cite your sources. I've cited mine. Including the bloody stage show's official website! I would assume that if Lord Andy would have wanted it spelled Raul he would have put it that way on the OFFICAL SITE! But it is spelled Raoul! Are you sure it wasn't just a typo where they forgot the 'o'? If you can show me more than one source where ALW has specifically stated that it is spelled Raoul, THEN I will believe you. Please back up your arguments with valid sources. I shudder to think what your research papers for school look like.
On another note, Raoul is a 'he'. Not an 'it'.

Wow...we cite specific sources and give you indisputable evidence and you give us a four word sentence without citing your sources. And an obnoxious amount of exclamation points.

Anyway, Raul/Raúl is the Portugese and Spanish form of the name Ralph. Raoul is the French form of Ralph. So, logically, it would be Raoul.
link (look, our Raoul is first on the list!)

And I agree, Raoul is a "he" as far as I know. ;)

By the way, I could continue this whole debate for years...

Ooook...Well...I'm just going to say this...I'm pretty sure it is spelled...Raoul...The sites you found with it spelled Raul are wrong and the person who made them probably can't spell... Though I can't say I spell everything right though either :) Has anyone still getting emails from "The phantom" I still am and it's getting annoying! If only it really were the phantom *sigh* I don't know if I want to accept this sequel or not either...I'm going to watch that one video where Ramin Karimloo is singing "Till I hear you sing" and see what it sounds like...I still have yet to do that...

I just had an idea.

Maybe ALW is trying to pull a this off a la The Producers.

The kid isn't the Phantom's. Christine did not have sex with the Phantom, nor was she raped. The kiss at the end is the only romantic physical connection made by the two - that's why it's so powerful. There is no power to it if sexual contact has already been had. Load of SHIT. LND is a load of SHIT.

And have you heard about ALW? He has been diagnosed with prostate cancer.

Anyway I just wanted to let you guys know I'm leaving the Phantom fandom, as it's worn me down and I want to hear no more about LND. So it's been great and I'll miss ya'll but I can't stick around. *hugs all* You are all brave and more dedicated than me to carry on.

Holy flying sheep in a shipwreck, no.

I've been mostly in denial since this whole nightmare started. And I'm also trying to read up on the history of Coney Island.

As for "Till I Hear You Sing"... it was all right, I guess...

And it's spelled Raoul. End of story. We've cited our sources.

I did hear about ALW's cancer. Unfortunately, he'll be recovered by New Year's, according to the article I read.

*tears well in eyes* You mean you do research?
*plops Kitannah down in a nice comfy chair with a cup of hot cider and a slice of pie* Please stay! Help JH and I bring the intellectual level of this phandom up! *gives JH pie as well, for being awesome and bitchy*
VF, you CAN'T leave! If you leave it means the stupid is winning!!!

"You mean you do research?"
I do indeed. Or at least, as much as I can find. If you have any links to articles or anything, I would be very grateful. :)

Meh nothing can be done to stop it so I'm going to let it win. :/

But yeah thank you guys for your conversation and stuff it really was swell. :)

Wow, first time anyone's given me pie for being bitchy. XD

Aw, VF...*hugs* Trust me, I know the feeling. We'll all miss you! :(

I'll miss you too, VF, even though we never met. :( I enjoyed reading all your posts, anyway.

I'm writing a research paper on the history of Coney Island for school! This should be fun.

Coney Island is a very interesting place. Seedy as hell, but cool. Are you focusing more on the corruption, the horse racing, the amusement parks (and their deathtrap rides), or the side shows, burlesques, and dance halls that catered to the depravity and curiosity of the patrons to the island?

The latter. I think it will be more relevant to LND. I haven't really thought it out too much yet.

Yea...I heard of ALW having prostate cancer...But he said he was going to recover and also it said in the paper...that he said the sequel resulted from "unfinished business"...What the hell does he mean by that? Why are you leaving phandom VF?! Well...it's your choice...but you will be greatly missed! We will miss your wonderful posts...I don't think I could give up phandom...I'm ignoring this stupid sequel and am going to pretend it does not exist...Goodnight everyone!

I have no idea what it's supposed to mean. He also said the end was "unsatisfying". Unfortunately, that's kind of the point. Sometimes everybody doesn't get their happily ever after. Sometimes the world sucks. That's just how it is. And as much as Erik's pain at the end upsets me, it wouldn't be the same show without it. It's what makes him a sympathetic character rather than a brute.
I dunno. I think, maybe, I might be able to live with Christine still harboring some conflicting emotions over the whole thing. She and Raoul are in love. There really isn't any denying that. But, deep in my little phangirl heart I kind of like to think that maybe she felt something for Erik as well. Not just pity, or gratitude for helping her voice, but maybe something a little more tender. It would be very difficult for him not to be important to her on an emotional level when you think about it. For months he was her Angel. A manifestation of what she believed was her father reaching out to her from beyond the grave to let her know he still loved his daughter, and that she wasn't alone in the world. That's pretty hard to forget about. Even after she found out he wasn't a real angel, he was still someone who cared for her and (albeit through a disturbing stalkerish way) was there for her. I always got the impression that although Christine was well liked, she didn't have many close friends. And when you're lonely sometimes it doesn't matter to you if the people you spend time with are really bad for you, it only matters that they want to be around you and that there's someone who at least appears to care. So, I might be able to live with it being kind of a coincidence that Christine showed up in NYC and she and Erik happened to run into each other and it reopened some old wounds. But if he's the one luring her there I'm going to be highly annoyed.

NOOOOO!!!!! VF DON'T!!!!!!!!!!! WHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!! :(!!!!!! DON'T LEAVE PHANDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!(­tea­rs running down face) (sniffs..) well, mabey LND won't be so bad.........WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA­HAH­A!!­!!!­!!!­! DON'T DO IT VF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! (sniffs again..lol) I do really do like till i hear you sing........WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH­AHA­H!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­(sn­iff­s..­aga­in) I watched an enterview about LND, and i don't think it will be that bad.........WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!­!!!­!!!­! DON'T GO!!!!!!!!!!NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!! FOR THE LOVE OF THE LATE MARIA BEONSON, DON'T GOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­! FOR THE LOVE OF ALW, DON'T GOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­WAH­AHA­HAH­AHA­HAH­AHA­HAH­AHH­AHA­HAH­AHA­HAH­AHA­HAH­AHA­HAH­AHA­HAH­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!!­!!

Sweetie, I think you mean Maria Bjornson. It's bad enough that people can't spell "fictional" characters' names on here. Let's not begin with actual people. And I don't know if a lot of people are doing ANYTHING for the love of Lloyd Webber right now. He's annoyed a lot of people. I think the best he's going to get at this point from most of the phandom is hoping that he doesn't die from the cancer. (I do hope he recovers, if only so I can throttle him myself)

*evil laugh* "Erik" making fun of "the_phantom"'s tweets:

link

Well said Phantomness...I really wish ALW would stop the sequel to this musical...Yea I definetly think Christine felt SOMTHING for Erick...he made a great impact on her life...I think she may have loved him if he didn't kill people...I think thats what scared her away...is that he killed innocent people like that...she even said at the end "his haunted face holds no horror for me now..." I personally would have liked to see Erick and Christine together...Raoul was a bit annoying... Does anyone think that maybe because they knew eachother as children they automatically thought they should get together as adults? I don't know...just a suggestion...This sequel is driving me nuts...I remember when I first heard about it...my eyes nearly popped out of my head...*sigh* I dunno...

OMG JH that Twitter feed PWNS! I really need to start yelling at the LND Phanotm in French again. Just to confuse him.