11-years-old forced to give birth to her child 

The ethics board said she could only have an abortion if she was in life danger. Now, the 11 years old has to give birth to her child which was conceived when she was raped.

Congratulations, pro-lifers. You say you want to save kids' lives, what about that 11 years old kid?

Indeed, this raises some questions... of morals, particularly. But, honestly, that is really sad - I can't believe an uncle would do something so despicable to an 11 year old girl. I hope that guy rots in a prison cell somewhere. What a total asshole, low-life, piece of dirt.

Well done, humans.

^ I know right?

@Chaan: Congratulations, pro-lifers.
You are aware you're making yourself look like an ass when you assume all pro-lifers are okay with 11 year old girls giving birth, yes?

Actually, I'd have to agree with you, bri-marie. I doubt every single pro-life advocator out there is for an 11-year old giving birth and shame on the ones that are...

@bri-marie I said; "pro-lifers" I didn't mean ALL the pro-lifers, that's what you're implying.
But some people who are absolutely pro-life are like that. And they're the ones who denied that girl an abortion.
Also pro-lifers who say; ABORTION IS MURDER IT'S WRONG provoke these kind of things.

I find it remarkable how you can just dismiss the entire point of the debate and argue the little things people say unconsciously.

You made no distinction between those pro-lifers and the rest of the pro-lifers. As a pro-lifer, I found that offensive and asinine. Perhaps, if you don't want people to comment on what you say, you should be more careful about what and how you say things.

I'm not dismissing anything. Did I say "well, what that girl went through doesn't matter because Chaan made x comment!" No? Then I didn't dismiss anything.

Lumping all pro-lifers or pro-choicers into one narrow category is a big problem in the abortion debate. If anything, I was adding to this debate by pointing out how problematic that behavior is.

^ Alright you're not dismissing you're ignoring. This link is about an 11-years-old being forced to give birth. It's not about how I talk or how I react on things.

This link is added to show that a pro-life point of view is in these cases disastrous. And all you're talking about is how offended YOU feel by the way I talk.

And I'm not some fucking machine who can just keep my opinion for myself. I do think pro-lifers cause these situations and I'm not hiding it anymore only because you could be bitching about these comments.

But if you want to keep debating over how much of a meany I am over the way I talk and how offended you are then I don't see the point in debating at all.

I wanted to debate over this 11 years old girl not about my view on pro-lifers.

But apparently this isn't the "debate" spot anymore this is the "be politically correct or be bitched on" spot.

It's not about how I talk or how I react on things.
Except you're interacting with other people on a public forum. If you're going to make a comment that lumps a group of people into one category to prove your point, people are going to call you out on it.

You're allowed to debate. What's not allowed is being rude and offensive. If you can't debate without being rude and offensive, than you probably shouldn't be here.

You can't see the point in people point out when you're being disrespectful and wrong?

Alright so people call me out on it. I know that. But I wanted to make that comment because I wanted to get responses from people about the 11 years old girl. (not that I made that comment out of nowhere I do believe in it but I made it more obvious)

Who says debating is without being rude and offensive? Have you ever watched politicians? If you want a happy political correct conversation I suggest the Socratic Conversation.
Also *then

And no, I have a mother & teachers for that, thank you very much. May I point out to you that this is the INTERNET? AKA, a place where you can express yourself?

Also I still haven't seen a single word in your comments about the 11-years-old girl because you were too busy over 2 stupid words.

Have you ever watched politicians?
"if other people do it, it's okay if I do it!"
People don't like it when politicians do it. That's why people get upset about it. If you can't debate without being rude, than you can't debate.

a place where you can express yourself?
You're allowed. But that street goes two ways. Others are allowed to express themselves when they get upset at your rude behavior.

I have no need to comment about the 11 year old girl. I've expressed, quite plainly, several times on this spot alone, my feelings surrounding abortion. It has actually become redundant.

I'm Pro-Life, and I feel terrible for this girl. I admit, the trauma and immense pain of the rape as well as the trauma and shock of the pregnancy can easily be too much for a young child. I can only wish her the best < 3

@bri-marie If you're not here to talk about the girl but to tell your opinion about abortion, why did you click on the link anyways?

and if you have already expressed those feelings, why did you bother to express it so badly after 2 words written out of anger towards the people who denied that girl an abortion?

Also one of the definitions of debate is "the right to argue over". Sometimes debates are formal discussions, sometimes they're heated arguments supported by facts. As a debater, you should know that.

If others get upset when I express myself that's their problem, not mine. But thanks for turning this comment section that was supposed to go about an 11 years old girl into a comment section dedicated to you bitching over two words.

@Chaan:why did you click on the link anyways?
The title caught my attention. I read the things posted on this spot, even if I don't add anything to the discussion.

why did you bother to express it so badly after 2 words written out of anger towards the people who denied that girl an abortion?
Because you made no distinction between those people and myself. I saw it as an attack on myself and my beliefs.

sometimes they're heated arguments supported by facts
One, again, just because others do it, doesn't mean it's okay. Two, the fact is you lumped all pro-lifers into one group. Which isn't a fact, it's a generalization made by absolutely no evidence.

But thanks for turning this comment section that was supposed to go about an 11 years old girl into a comment section dedicated to you bitching over two words
Once again, if you don't want people to bitch at you, don't be offensive. It's really not that complicated.
Also, it's takes two people to keep a conversation going. You're just as much to blame for this as I am, as you keep responding.

^
I didn't get that from political leaders, I got that from the dictionary

I kept responding because I tried to get the attention back to the 11 years old girl. I failed because I got too involved. You kept responding because you want me to apologize for the fact that I hate pro-lifers. Good luck with that.

Chaan94, all I'm going to say on this link (because there's another discussion alongside this one where I've shared the same issue bri-marie is pointing out here) is this;

Addressing your statement here;
"If others get upset when I express myself that's their problem, not mine."

Actually, to a point, it is. Please allow me to explain.

This spot is, of course, free for anyone to express their opinions, viewpoints, and perspectives on a number of controversial subjects. This is evidently and perhaps quite obviously why this spot was made to begin with, reasons revolving on what I said previously and to have a discussion on a particular matter of the world and our society(ies).

So yes, you do have the rights to your opinion and to state them.

But here is where I at least feel that you're mistaken.

The motto of this spot itself is as follows; "A place for fair, respectable, and intellectual conversation".
If I could somehow fucking figure out how to make words bold within text -_- I would bold up the word 'respectable' for sure. Because honestly Chaan94, this is what you sometimes lack in the way you address others and their opinions on here. And to be honest, it's becoming quite obvious that it isn't just me or a select two users who have felt that way.

As bri-marie has stated, others can and will freely express themselves here as well. They will most definitely express themselves when you even indicatively generalize a group of people or bash another's opinion. And honestly, considering your reaction to bri-marie's pointing your comment out, perhaps it is becoming problematic for even yourself.

You seem to feel that people call you out all the time or at least rather frequently. Well, this is why;

The way you approach others greatly impacts how a debate or a discussion goes. It also affects your opposing side's combativeness and need for becoming defensive to begin with.

No one's trying to tell you how to debate. People are simply pointing out and encouraging you to show some form of considerable respect for others within debates and discussions here.

And that's all I'm going to say.

Edit: Now know how to make font bold. =]
Thank you again, bri-marie!

@Chaan:I got that from the dictionary
That's great? That still doesn't make being offensive okay. That logic doesn't even make sense here

I hate pro-lifers
Because hating all Muslims for a few bombings is a-okay everyone!
You make it sound as if I'm the bad guy for wanting you to apologize for being rude and attacking an entire group of people because you can't look past your own prejudices.

EDIT: Oh, and @Dark: You make things bold by using [ b ] whatever words you want [ / b ] (no spaces between the brackets). It works for italics (just replace the b with an i) and underlining things (just replace the b with a u).

Thank you, bri-marie! :)

I was looking for an article or something that could explain to me how to make font bold and other things like that, cause I heard there was one. It drove me nuts xD

@bri-marie Muslims didn't bomb a thing, those are called terrorists. And yes, I hate terrorists for the "few bombings" they did including oh I dunno maybe 9/11, London, India, etc?

and @DarkCEpitome I think you're right :( I agree that maybe that could have come off as offensive, but how is that the point? Out of the around 50 words I said she picked out 2 words and began debating. I guess if that's how it works around here I'll just adjust myself to that then.
But I do respect your opinion a lot so I'll try and be more respectful in my comments.*
*from now on, so not including what I stated in this comment about terrorists, but from now on.

This article has hardly any information at all. Why didn't she become concerned when she stopped menstruating?

Not supporting abortion after the first trimester isn't really a "pro life" preference.

^ Because she's 11 years old and she has irregular menstrual cycles? Because she's only a kid?

and it is, a pro-choice would have known it was still possible and legal to help her, since she's only a kid.

@Chaan: Muslims didn't bomb a thing, those are called terrorists.
Way to completely miss my entire point.

Also: I picked out those two words because those two words were offensive. I tend to do this a lot (as do other people.)

@Dark: No problem :)

Come to think about it, this article is actually very old. Does anyone have a follow up article? (If there even is one.)

^ Well you missed the entire point of an 11 years old being forced to give birth, so unconsciously I was just returning you the favour.

And if you want to make a point, at least use correct facts.

I would think an 11 year old girl would know what pregnancy is and that menstrual cycles come regularly. She should know that sex causes pregnancy and she had sex.
Unless she's not allowed to know any that, despite being pubescent.
I don't know the details because the article is only five sentences long.

I don't want to imply that pro-life people just don't know things. Or that eleven years olds don't know anything.
I am pro-choice, but I don't like the idea of a second or third trimester abortion either.

cassie1-2-": To be fair a lot of people do not know those things, sexual education is not the same everywhere and sometimes it is just missing. People can not always talk aout these things with their parents. I also think that it could be possible that this girl did not have sex ed in school because she was only eleven: in some countries that is considered too young for sex ed.
Also 'mestrual cycles come regularly' - not always, especially not when it first starts and it can also be irregular due to other factors, for example stress and malnutrition
You do not know the situation and how much sexual education the girl has had. I sometimes am surprised by the lack of knowledge among 14-15-16 year olds on the sex and sexuality spot.

This is an horrible situation for this girl and I hope that the situation worked out for the best for her, her child and the family.

Ow, I found the follow up story and apparently she did not have the child: she was allowed an abortion after all, wether in Romania or the UK is not clear.

link

link

link

@Chaan:Well you missed the entire point of an 11 years old being forced to give birth
I didn't miss the point of anything. These type of situations (too young girls getting pregnant/women needing abortions out of medical need and not getting them) are the exact type of situations I fight against.

And what false facts am I using? The fact that not all pro-lifers think 11 years olds should give birth?(Edit: have to fight to get an abortion, apparently.) That's not an incorrect fact.
Was it the "you're being offensive"? That's not an incorrect fact, either.
The fact that you completely missed my "hate all Muslims because of a select few" comment? That's not an incorrect fact, either.
The comment I made about having expressed my views on abortion several times? That's not incorrect, either.

@Sappp: I'm pretty sure it was in the U.K., because in the first article you linked, they talk about there being no hassle about traveling to the U.K.

You know arguing about a thing like this, on a terrible situation like thus is a bit heartless in my opinion... Why not just quit arguing and all agree that it is a horrible situation. There's no need for everyone to start blaing each other for words said, instead just agree that it was horrible for the girl and that everyone commenting on here is just as sympathetic, even if some of the things Chaann said were generalised... Honestly, there's no need to get too padantic about this. It is a terrible situation for the girl and you guys are forgetting about that and worrying more about the argument and words said.

@cassie1-2-3 That 11 year old girl- still a kid!- was raped by her own uncle. I think she had better things to worry about than her menstrual cycle. Also we get sex ed when we're 12/13/14 I dunno how it's in her country.

and@blackpanther666 I totally agree with you.

@Chaan94, no offense intended to anyone... But, you all created this mini-argument, so it is up to you all to make it right now. Either way, I still find this situation absolutely disgusting... I can't believe people like that so-called uncle even exist in our society - it honestly scares the hell outta me.

@blackpanther666 You're not being offensive at all.

And you're right. I hope that guy gets nutered with a stone :/

It's possible to learn about menstration outside of school.

But the article is still only five sentences long, so I don't know what she knew or didn't know. I'm assuming you don't either, unless you have a more informative article that you're keeping secret.

I just think it's very basic knowledge.
Sex - no period - baby.
She'd have to be utterly clueless to have absolutely no inclination toward the possibility.

^ Now you're implying I'm holding back information. Weird.

and it's easy for you to say but obviously you have no idea what it is like to be raped by your uncle.
that child was only 11 years old when her 19 years old uncle raped her.
she was probably so ashamed that she had no idea what was going on.

and it's really heartless of you to say that it's that 11 years old own fault.

Nope, I'm not implying that. I'm implying that we both have the same amount of information.

I didn't say it was anyone's fault.
I just think it's strange that she appears to not know what pregnancy is or how it happens.
(I haven't brought up the rape issue at all)

Copied from my above comment

cassie1-2-": To be fair a lot of people do not know those things, sexual education is not the same everywhere and sometimes it is just missing. People can not always talk aout these things with their parents. I also think that it could be possible that this girl did not have sex ed in school because she was only eleven: in some countries that is considered too young for sex ed.
Also 'mestrual cycles come regularly' - not always, especially not when it first starts and it can also be irregular due to other factors, for example stress and malnutrition
You do not know the situation and how much sexual education the girl has had. I sometimes am surprised by the lack of knowledge among 14-15-16 year olds on the sex and sexuality spot.

I saw that already. It's strange that those 14-15-16 year olds don't know either.

Well, humans are a fucked up species.