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Debate Question

Meat is murder?

I saw a club the other day, called Animal Guardians... the club icon being 'meat is murder'. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think meat is murder, or do you think it's just a part of life?
 blackpanther666 posted over a year ago
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Debate Answers

whiteflame55 said:
Technically, all food is murder, unless you're capable of photosynthesizing or eating things that are solely chemicals. Meat is murder, but so is eating any plant, which is basically the only other option for human beings. What's intriguing about this is that if you mention it to these very self-righteous vegetarians and vegans, the bulk of them will respond with "plants don't have feelings." Seems awfully hypocritical for a group that has advocated that many animals can feel in ways we don't always easily perceive would then turn around and say another life form, which almost certainly does "feel" to some extent, is incapable of regarding pain and death.

Generally, though, I think their best message is not "meat is murder," it's "meat is torture." Factory farming is certainly torturous for the animals involved, living in small, dirty spaces, being force fed foods and antibiotics for the purposes of improved growth and the like. There's certainly something to be said about how we treat animals, and really the only defensible response is that we need a lot of meat, and this is the way to get it. The reality is that if we didn't have that large amount of meat, we'd need a lot more arable land to produce more plant products. However, I don't think this justifies what we put these animals through, it just justifies the expansion of current animal farming practices to wider areas in my opinion.
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posted over a year ago 
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Isn't murder 'killing in cold blood'? I don't know if I agree with that first bit, to be honest. Murdering a human is to murder them in cold blood - to kill them without reason, just for the sake of it. That's pretty much the general idea of murder, anyway... there may be special cases within that, as well, but I'm talking in general here. The rest of it I fully agree with, however. A lot of places tend to factory farm, so we can get meat in massive quantities, which I have a lot of problems with. I have heard people saying about meat being murder, but eating plants being fine. Not sure how I feel about that - I guess, it is essentially the same thing, just that people consider plants not to have feelings, but that is irrelevant, since it amounts to the same thing, anyway. Besides, most animals, except probably some pets, don't have 'feelings', at least, not in the way that some people seem to think they do. All in all, I see your point here.
blackpanther666 posted over a year ago
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"Isn't murder 'killing in cold blood'?" Murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. Well, killing and murder are not the same. Also, What about insects? People kill insects in cold blood.
Nick16 posted over a year ago
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Well, I guess it depends on your definition of murder. I'm considering it from the perspective of having killed something with intent, though by both of your definitions that would be incorrect. Perhaps I'm using the word incorrectly.
whiteflame55 posted over a year ago
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Yes, people do kill insects, Nick, though the function isn't for food so I'd say that's a separate issue.
whiteflame55 posted over a year ago
PlayingWithFire said:
No, I think it's just biology. Yes, animals are living things, but so are plants. Would that make vegetarians and herbivores murderers? There are also many carnivores and omnivores in the animal kingdom, including humans. If humans weren't meant to eat meat, why the hell do they have canine teeth?

Humans having always been eating meat and they will always eat meat. There might be vegetarians but the fact that a large amount of humans eat meat is never going to change, no matter how religiously animal rights supporters push it. I myself love meat and don't see myself ever cutting it out of my diet. I don't feel that someone is a cold-blooded killer just because he/she ate a hamburger or a steak or that someone is a sadistic psychopath who hates animals because he/she loves to eat chicken. Sure it might not be necessary for humans as omnivores, but meat, including chicken and fish, have their health benefits including protein and B vitamins. It's debatable that eating meat is no longer needed, but expecting humans who love to eat meat to stop because of an ideology that all carnivores and omnivores except humans can eat other animals and not be evil and cruel is unrealistic and wishful thinking.
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posted over a year ago 
ThePrincesTale said:
Yep, meat is murder.

Tasty, tasty murder.
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posted over a year ago 
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In all seriousness though, while it may be "murder", it is also biology. In the same way that seals eat fish, limpets ingest algae,and wolves catch elk, humans by their nature consume that which they have evolved to consume. I see no moral gripe with the consumption of animals, provided their lives are humanely ended- animals which, may I add, were brought into this world and granted a chance at life only because of farming.
ThePrincesTale posted over a year ago
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:p
Nick16 posted over a year ago
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@ThePrincesTale. I think the trouble is that most meat isn't gained from killing animals in a humanely way. That's the sad thing. People just treat life on Earth like it is expendable... or, even worse, expendable and like crap. However, I agree about the biology part, as it is definitely a good point. To complain about a human killing an animal in a humane way, is to basically say that it is wrong for animals to kill other animals.
blackpanther666 posted over a year ago
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I agree, so long as the treatment is humane, it's not murder.
zanhar1 posted over a year ago
anviange said:
i won't say meat is murder. if they say,then will they complain when lion or tiger hunt for their food.if herbivores aren't hunted then there won't be no nature balance and there will be no food for human coz all plants and trees will be eaten by animals, then where will be the food?
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posted over a year ago 
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I think Nick is referring to unnecessary consumption of meat by omnivores, not the necessary consumption by carnivores. The balancing of ecosystems doesn't require that humans and other omnivores consume meat.
whiteflame55 posted over a year ago
LGYCE said:
Meat is most definitely a part of life. When you think about it, there is no real logic behind the idea that animals have as much right to life as we do, but we can't eat them. Either they are capable of conscious intelligent thought, making them equal with us, meaning they have no right to eat other animals if we don't. Or, they do it because they aren't capable of considering any other way, meaning they aren't on the same level as us, meaning it is NOT murder.
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posted over a year ago 
zanhar1 said:
I think it's part of life. I love animals as much as the next guy and I wouldn't eat dog or cat, or even rabbit. But lets face it; since the beginning of time humans hunted animals for food. We just found more convenient ways to do so at this point in time.

And lets not forget that other animals eat animals. It's the food chain, the circle of life. Wolves eat rabbits, owls eat mice, and lions chase gazelles.

I don't judge people who don't eat mean, likewise they shouldn't call meat eaters murderers.
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posted over a year ago 
Dscha38 said:
Murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
Its not murder its slaughter, if it is done humanly they dont feel it and or dont know whats happening.
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posted over a year ago 
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