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Debate Question

Which do you think is right when it comes to the topic of abortion: It is illegal and there should be punishments against it, or it is legal and every expectant mother has the right to request an abortion?

I personally think abortion is wrong in any type of situation. If you abort a fetus, you are terminating a life that has not even started; a life of a person who could not speak for themselves at all and I believe that is just horrendous. Also, since you are ending the life of a human being, abortion might as well be a synonym for murder. But that is what I believe. What does everyone else think of problem with abortion?
Which do you think is right when it comes to the topic of abortion: It is illegal and there should be punishments against it, or it is legal and every expectant mother has the right to request an abortion?
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I know I didn't really put up a good argument. I just joined this spot and am interested in learning what to do in a debate, so this is just practice for me.
sapherequeen posted over a year ago
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NOTE: My thoughts on severe medical conditions being the reasons for abortion have changed.
sapherequeen posted over a year ago
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aww...that baby is freaking adorable
ggurl2397 posted over a year ago
 sapherequeen posted over a year ago
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Debate Answers

Milah said:
Well, I really don't care about the politics. Whether it's legal or illegal. But I don't think abortion is right though. I just couldn't stand the fact of being a murderer. I just couldn't stand the fact that I took a person's life away who never had a chance to open their eyes and see the world. Who never had a chance at life.
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posted over a year ago 
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WOW! Did I really just say that? Surprising! AWESOME!
Milah posted over a year ago
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That's A Great Answer Lol, And I Totally Agree. I Could Never Do It , If I Woke Up Tomorow Pregnant (I'm 13) I Would Still Keep My Baby. It Never Did Anything Wrong SEX DID.
Usedbandages posted over a year ago
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I agree completely
ggurl2397 posted over a year ago
Cinders said:
Pro-lifers propagate the myth that abortions are only obtained by women who are lazy, selfish, and/or underage.

They also claim that the majority of abortions are late term-- this isn't true. In fact, the United States has laws against late term abortions.

Under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, a fetus is not considered alive until it has taken its first breath of air and can live independently of the mother. If a man murders a pregnant woman, he is not charged with double-homicide. On a lighter note, lone pregnant women cannot drive in the carpool lane simply because they're "driving for two."

The real question about this is when does life begin? That's where line drawing comes in. Is the morning after pill as morally reprehensible as an abortion? If you say yes, then are you against contraceptives? Uninterrupted, the sperm would have hit the egg, and created a fetus, which would grow into a baby. Does that mean condoms, which prevent this from happening are wrong?

St Thomas Aquinas believed that God would not bestow a soul onto a vessel that had no use for it. This is why he did not believe a fetus had a soul until quickening-- when the brain and nervous system are developed enough for the fetus to kick in the womb.

Several Catholics believe that life begins at conception-- in which case, the morning after pill is wrong. The same Catholics believe that it's wrong for a woman who was raped to take the morning after pill proceeding her attack.

Abortion-- and regulating it-- has been a tool of political manipulation of women since the 1960s. I read an article in one of my classes detailing how if a woman wanted an abortion, she had to go up in front of a panel of doctors (all men in those days), who would decide for her if she could do it. More often than not, their answer would be no.

Personally, I cannot say what I would do if I was backed so far into a corner I thought I needed an abortion. Some cultures will kill a woman if she has sex out of wedlock (called honor killings), in which case pregnancy can literally be the death of a woman (and often her child) if she does not terminate. It should be noted that honor killings often occur even if the woman was raped.

In the play Mitzi's Abortion, a woman who did not initially want the child bonds with it during the first trimester only to find out later that her baby has suffered a severe birth defect known as anencephaly. Straight from Wikipedia, that means that "Children with this disorder are born without a forebrain, the largest part of the brain consisting mainly of the cerebral hemispheres (which include the isocortex, which is responsible for higher level cognition, i.e., thinking). The remaining brain tissue is often exposed—not covered by bone or skin... Most anencephalic babies do not survive birth, accounting for 55% of non-aborted cases. If the infant is not stillborn, then he or she will usually die within a few hours or days
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posted over a year ago 
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after birth from cardiorespiratory arrest." In cases where both the lives of the fetus and the mother are in jeopardy, unless otherwise told by the parents or their advance directive, the doctor's main focus is to save the mother first, then try and save the fetus. This is especially true if the pregnancy has not advanced far enough for the fetus to be able to live on its own outside of the womb, even with premature birth life support equipment. In short (haha, "short"), abortion and prenatal health are far more complicated than both the prochoice and prolife debaters make it out to be. One must consider all sides of the equation and remember that there are <i>always</i> extenuating circumstances for everything. There are and should be restrictions on abortions. They are painful procedures, and women are educated on what they are doing. Women are often also told about every other opportunity available to them-- so abortion is never pushed on an expectant mother by a licensed doctor. More often than not, it's used as a last resort by desperate women. It is not something people take lightly.
Cinders posted over a year ago
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Yes, I guess it does. That sounds a lot like the contraceptive pill actually - doesn't that stop it from implanting? Correct me if I'm wrong, I just remember being told that when I was put on it for different reasons. I know some Christians have a problem with certain contraceptive pills because of this.
katiecain posted over a year ago
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I'm not totally sure either, I just know the preferrable thing to do is to use a condom or don't have sex at all!
MadamOcta13 posted over a year ago
Sappp said:
If I became pregnant right now, I would have an abortion.

The reason?
In the summer of 2007, after being having kidney problems my entire life, I heard I needed a new kidney. My brother was a match, so the 22st July 2008 we went into surgery.
At first all went well, but then the problems started. I will not bore you with the details of it but I spent 7 out of the next 8.5 months in the hospital and underwent 3 more surgeries.

After that I spent almost a year recovering. At this moment I am at the point where I have a reasonable condition and my new kidney is funtioning very well. My medication has been lowered to almost the minimum.

I'm on birthcontrol and always use condoms. Yet there is always the chance I'd become pregnant.

My body probably can't take that. I've been through to much to take that risk.

And after all I've experienced, I would not want a child at this moment.
Right now all is well, I want to enjoy that.

You may call that selfish if you want.
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posted over a year ago 
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Okay. That's the most selfish thing I've ever heard in my life!!! Just because you don't feel up to it, you want to kill your baby? Are you sick?
MadamOcta13 posted over a year ago
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I would not kill anything. I would remove a clump of cells, not a baby and it's not murder because it is not alive. And like I said, not only do I not 'feel up to it' but my body can't take it either. I choose for my life before anything that has the potential to life. I call that survival.
Sappp posted over a year ago
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I think there's a very big distance between "not feeling up to it" and "recovering from intense invasive surgery." Just... You know... to point that out.
Cinders posted over a year ago
rorymariano said:
I have always thought that abortion is wrong. In my opinion when you have an abortion then you (& the doctor) are commiting a murder. A lot of people say that the baby is not alive during the first trimester of pregnancy. However, I consider anything with a heartbeat alive. If you share in my opinion of this, then you would be interested in the fact that the heart of a baby starts beating only about 18 days after conception. Another thing that I always use in my argument is that you never know what that child was supposed to do. What if you are killing the person who would find the cure for cancer? The next president? The next Billy Graham? If you think that you will not make a good mother and that is why you are getting an abortion, there are many people in the world that would just love to have a baby and can't. In my family, there have been many of my cousins that were adopted and I cannot imagine life without them. Give the baby a happy home instead of just killing them. I just think that abortion is wrong.
P.S. sapherequeen- I love the picture of the baby, it's precious!
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posted over a year ago 
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the embryo doesn't have a heart during the first months...
Monrose posted over a year ago
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Brain waves are detectable by Week 6. Week 11: baby can grasp objects placed in hand; all organ systems functioning; the baby has fingerprints, a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation. Week 12: the baby has all of the part necessary to experience pain, including the nerves, spinal cord and thalamus. My personal favorite is that at Week 17 the baby can have REM sleep.
rorymariano posted over a year ago
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In week 11: Not every organ is functioning. And its organs are far from developed. Before the first 20 weeks there is no complex cortex, a part of the brain that plays a key role in including memory, sensory processes, thinking, and awareness. A state without a functioning cortex is universally regarded as a state of death. An adult human being in such a state can not really be "killed" since the person is already dead, it's just a lifeless body again. So to quote two researches, Thomson and Dworkins:”[It is] very hard to make sense of the idea that a fetus has rights from the moment of conception. Having rights seems to presuppose having interests, which in turn seems to presuppose having wants, hopes, fears, likes and dislikes. But an early fetus lacks the physical constitution required for such psychological states”. Since you're so hung up on weeks, we can rather discuss when the limit should be set. I believe that it at least have to be 12, because in week 12 you can find out if the fetus has Down Syndrome in 93% of the cases.
Monrose posted over a year ago
adavila said:
I think it should be legal for one month pregnant women not more
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posted over a year ago 
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Whether she be pregnant for one or nine months, IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT A LIFE IS BEING STOLEN!
MadamOcta13 posted over a year ago
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I would also agree to that, as long as the mother was dying or the baby had no way to survive (and I mean, a very, very, very good reason to not be able to survive). Other then that, I say NO.
sapherequeen posted over a year ago
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But what if the life will end abruptly before the child is born?
sapherequeen posted over a year ago
greeneyedvamp said:
I find abortion wrong in so many ways. What if your killing the next brad pitt or president of the united states just because you are afriad to tell your mom? Yes abortion may be legal but in my opinion it is wront to want to end a life before it has even had a chance to take its first step or big breat of fresh air. How would you feel killing a baby before you can look it in the eyes and say i love you? this is just my opinion and i hope i dont offend any one.
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posted over a year ago 
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I absolutely agree :)
sapherequeen posted over a year ago
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Hold it: "stop that LIFE".
MadamOcta13 posted over a year ago
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Please, sead the whole sentence IF you want to attack someone on little thing. She said stop that life from coming into being. So at that point, according to her, there is no life yet, because it starts when thought begins (in SG1-090 opinion)
Sappp posted over a year ago
ashesandwine said:
Personally I think that people have a right to choose whether they want to abort or not! It's up to them and we shouldn't make them feel bad for doing it (not accusing anyone, just saying)...
If someone decides that an abortion is the best for them then they should do it! Of it's a bad to end a life but it's a person's body, and people can do what they want with their body!


PS: just joined! LOVE debates! hope to meet people here and to have fun:P Portuguese so sorry for the mystakes!
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posted over a year ago 
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Welcome! I'm glad you love debates! We love seeing new debaters, with fresh insight and opinions. Most of us are very level-headed and open to all rational opinion and thought. So whatever you want to share, don't be afraid to say it loudly and prouldy.
Cinders posted over a year ago
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Actually, in sapherequeen's hypothetical example, she doesn't. Well, to be more specific; if she's a teenager and a minor, her father has every right to place her into therapy and make attempts to stop her from slicing herself. So, she kind of doesn't have the right., if that makes sense :/ Legal grounds, remember the specific details of a situation. It may not be the right way to handle a teen's self-mutilation, but unfortunately it is legitimate for a father to prevent his daughter continually self-harming herself.
DarkCEpitome posted over a year ago
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And not to mention; this is kind of off-topic, don't you think? :/
DarkCEpitome posted over a year ago
MadamOcta13 said:
Definately the illegal choice. Abortion is murder. It's even lower than murder because the human isn't even given a name yet! It just shows that people are irresponsible and lazy!
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posted over a year ago 
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Irresponsible and lazy? Really? I'm not saying I agree with abortio in all cases, because I don't, but how on earth is someone irresponsible or lazy if they are raped, get pregnant and then have an abortion? Are they meant to be on the pill just in case someone rapes them?! No! Abortions are OBVIOUSLY not just the result of being people being irresponsible or lazy.
katiecain posted over a year ago
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× Monrose, I'm not sure if you're saying this to me, but if you are, I wasn't stating what women who are pregnant from rape should feel. I was just stating that not all women see their children as a huge part of the rapist; some can still love and nurture the child. If your comment wasn't for me, I apologize.
sapherequeen posted over a year ago
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I think monrose was referring to madamocta's comment concerning that she would've felt a lot worse in the end if she'd aborted.
Sappp posted over a year ago
joelover101 said:
it's wrong
1 if u didn't want 2 get pregent then y did u use protection it's ur fault
2 if u don't want the baby their all ways adoption their no reason 2 kill the baby who didn't even have a chance 2 live in the world
3 if u want a abortion u r a murder in my world u can't be having sex and not think u might get pregent and just kill the baby
anyway thats what i think
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posted over a year ago 
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1. People do get pregnant even though the use protection. 2. Still, your body is going through so much, you can't even imagine... I don't wanna sacrifice that 3. To refuse a woman to take a decision like that, is cruel. The embryo won't feel anything, and if it hadn't been for the woman in the first place, it wouldn't be alive.
Monrose posted over a year ago
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Monrose...1. What are the chances of someone having sex using protection and conceiving? 2. ALL pregnant women endure changes...and are still able to have their children. I'm pretty sure that for a mother, looks mean nothing compared to their own child's life. 3. How is that decision cruel? I would say it's amazingly generous, because you're considering the lives no one else is seeing.
sapherequeen posted over a year ago
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Exactly. If you're not 100% sure, then they shouldn't do it. And I do think about myself, I come first. This is my life, and I have the right to decide if I wanna have a baby or not. And could you possible imagine why I wouldn't give it up for abortion?
Monrose posted over a year ago
Monrose said:
I am 100% for abortion.

If I got pregnant, I would go and take it away without a doubt. The child would not be happy with me, because I'm not what you would call a good mother.

And I will not give it away, because then my body would be really ugly and it would hurt like hell. My boobs would be really big, but that's not the point. You just can't refuse a woman to get an abortion. That's just mean!



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posted over a year ago 
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Wow....I can only say that I completely disagree.
sapherequeen posted over a year ago
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Well monrose...if your mum had an abortion, you wouldn't be here to tell us of this..would you now?...and all your selfish needs would have vanished as soon as your mum aborted!!!
vick2075 posted over a year ago
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That really is a lame argument. I mean if my mom aborted I would... I would... I would nothing because I would not exist. I would not mourn the fact that I don't exist, I would not be happy that I don't exist, because guess what? I DON'T EXIST. That argument is stupid and does not accomplish anything in a debate.
Sappp posted over a year ago
ej_classic said:
this is my opinion...
I hate abortion it is evil and it is murder. Those who choose abortion FOR ANY REASON should be giiven mental health help and given a sentance in prison for 3 years. Those whose profession it is to help with abortions the doctors who do it etc. should be given a life sentance in jail. nothing is too bad for these baby killers they should rot in jail.
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posted over a year ago 
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i would give reasons for this and discuss different aspects such as the mothers own health ofr disabilities of the baby but not on this question on another of people want to talk about it set up another question.
ej_classic posted over a year ago
alismouha said:
Think of it like this:If your parents were as selfish as you are,you wouldn't Exist.


Why Abortion when we have Adoption?



And why sex when you don't want babies?




Against.
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posted over a year ago 
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I'm sick of the 'if you're mom chose abortion then you would not be here' If my mom choose abortion because she thought it would be the right choice, then I won't be here. So what? I never would've known I would be alive, my 'life' would've ended before it started, so no harm done. And it would've been my mom's choice, one that every woman should have the right to.
Sappp posted over a year ago
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Why abortion when we have adoption: because sometimes the pregnancy is to dangerous (for example in case of illness) or to stresfull (for example in case of rape). And adoption is not like the perfect solution. The system is already full with children that go unadopted and unloved.
Sappp posted over a year ago
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And my point was that sex isn't only for reproduction, like Sappp said. It serves several legitimate reasons, including maintaining intimacy in a committed, monogamous relationship. Why else to men with vasectomies and/or post-menopausal women (or women with hysterectomies) have sex?
Cinders posted over a year ago
XDRoseLuvsHP said:
I think it's okay, up until a certain point, that is. I don't think someone should have an abortion at five months pregnant, because the baby is alive at that point. But if the baby is still just a ball of cells? Then it's not alive, so therefore you are not killing it.

I realize people think it's murder because it has the potential for life. But I have a question for you, then: is having your monthly period murder? Because it was a potential for life, but you didn't take up that potential, so now that egg, which could have been a person, can no longer become a baby? Just because you have your period? I think this is silly, personally. Because the egg isn't alive. Neither is a ball of cells.

Now, like I said, once it becomes a living baby (even a premature, unborn one) then it IS murder. But that isn't until a certain point. Before that, it's not murder.

Besides, what if it is a rapist that impregnates the woman? Should the woman have to go through that unwillingly? What if it were threatening the woman's life, and if she were to have the child she would die? What if she knew that the baby would be born with some terrible disease so that the baby would not only die very young, but the life it did have would be in pain and suffering and under testing and hooked up to machinery?

WHETHER YOU THINK ABORTION IS MORALLY RIGHT OR WRONG:
Illegalizing abortion is foolish. It will NOT stop abortions. All it will do is stop SAFE abortions. This way, not only will the baby be aborted, but the woman will likely die in the process. How do I know this? Because it's happened before. Last time they tried to illegalize abortions, there were thousands of women who died because they tried to give themselves abortions using coat hangers. Don't believe me? Look it up. So not only would the potential-babies "die", but so would the potential-mothers. So whatever you feel about abortion, illegalizing it will not solve anything and will only create greater problems.
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posted over a year ago 
GeekGirl said:
You are killing a life you are killing your own flesh and blood. It is only ok when someone needs to have one.
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posted over a year ago 
KissOfDoom said:
I personally consider fetuses living human beings when they develop a heartbeat (around the fourth or fifth week). After that (apart from cases where the woman's life is in danger) I think of abortion as murder. But I doubt that illegalizing it would eliminate the problem. If someone really wants to have an abortion, they'll find a way to do it, legal or otherwise.
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posted over a year ago 
s10239374 said:
Abortion is horrific, an actual Nazi invention.
If anyone goes with it, I ask them: "What if your mother chose abortion? Would you be so eager for it then?".
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posted over a year ago 
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...I cannot tell if you honestly believe abortion was invented by Nazi's, or if you're trying to distinguish how horrible you think abortions are.
bri-marie posted over a year ago
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Abortion is not a Nazi invention. People got them long before the Nazis existed, so you're really showing a dearth of knowledge on this one. As for your questions, they're both common pro-life arguments, but the response is straightforward. If my mother had aborted me, she would have conceived another child, an that child would now be living. Because my mother didn't get an abortion, that child never got a chance at life. So if he had, I never would have known life period, and someone else would have. I wouldn't be sad because I wouldn't have died with a concept of what that is. I like my life, and that child would have too.
whiteflame55 posted over a year ago
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My mom is a woman and in my opinion women should have the choice for abortion. And I never would want to take the choice from anyone. But your point is moot: if my mom did abort me, I would not be alive and not have an opinion about this subject.
Sappp posted over a year ago
tiagih said:
To be honest even if I wanted to make it illegal because I thought it was considered murder, that won't change anything because people would just have at-home abortions. I find abortions wrong on most if not all accounts, is simple and plain. If its legal or not legal that won't change my view on the practice.
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posted over a year ago 
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