Bangel vs Spuffy
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Bangel vs Spuffy Greatest Act Of Love?
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rewinding back time (angel i will remeber you)
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dying (spike chosen)
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getting soul (spike grave)
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leaving (angel graduation part 2)
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Make your pick! | next poll >> |
i can't believe you bangel fans won't admit that dying and getting your soul is by far greater than any single angel act even if you think the bangel realtionship was better
Angel turns back time and gives up everything he's ever wanted, his humanity and the chance to be with Buffy.
you don't leave someone that you love! if he loved her he wouldn't give up his only chance to be with her! yeah it's sad and a good storyline and everything but it's not a act of love it's just the best i could come up with, like i said before if you bangel fans can actually come up with anything that qualifies as a act of love add it!
sorry i do get passionate but i a friends of any buffy fan i'm just arguing
yes he does it to save the world but he does that for buffy and for his soul which he got because he loves buffy. Why is that a week arguement? spike got beaten by glory for buffy, he let buffy beat him when buffy thought she'd killed katrina, and he went through numourus test and trials to get his soul for her that far from what i would call weak!
that's why he goes to get his soul though
but this question isn't asking who you thought was best it's asking what the best single act of love was
so come on your not telling me that either time angel left buffy was a act of love, it makes less sense to me than spike getting his soul to you
Honestly, I don't wanna get all deep but I see forgiving Spike for attempting to rape Buffy because he gets his soul just like I see women who get beaten up by their husbands take them back because they've said they're sorry and it'll never happen again. It's like "it's ok, I know you didn't mean it"....crazy, absolutely crazy.
when i watched season 3 i honestly thought it was just going to be a big buffy/angel bust up and then they'd get together again, i was glad when he actually left
it's just if love someone to that extent you don't leave them
I was glad when Angel left because the show needed to move on and we got Angel out of it which is much more enjoyable than the corresponding seasons of Buffy anyways (except AngelS4 and BuffyS7 where Id' take Angel S4 up to when Faith leaves then S7 of Buffy is loads better. Jasmine sucks.).
As for the forgiving of Angel, Angelus and Angel aren't the same character. Angel doesn't kill anybody, Angelus does...except I'd probably proportion some blame for those pesky lawyers in the wine cellar.
yeah i never really got why angel has such different personlities when most other vamps kept a lot of there own traits (but that's off topic i know)
the fact of the matter is buffy will never have a normal life and who is he to know what's best for her that's for buffy to decide
that's why it shouldnt have mattered what anyone else said or thought they understood cause that's the point while buffy and riley were never anything fabulus as no one else can understand
:)
Buffy: "Will, it's okay. You don't have to make him the bad guy."
Willow: "But that's the best friend's job, vilifying and grousing."
Buffy: "Usually, yeah. But he's right. I mean, I think, maybe in the long run, that he's right."
Willow: "Yeah, I think he is. I mean, I tried to hope for the best, but... I'm sorry. It must be horrible."
twice...
Buffy: "I never thought you'd come."
Angel: "It's a big night. I didn't want to miss it. It's just tonight. It doesn't mean that I ..."
Buffy: "I know. I mean, I understand."
and in 'I Will Remember You' they have the whole discussion about how nothing's changed and the reasons Angel had to go are still there.
and i think it's the first time I've heard a bangle fan say that, good for you!
sorry i just heard the phrase cangel for the first time the other say and now i can't stop saying it cause it just sounds funny!
i don't have ANYONE to speak about the buffyverse and everything that is happening because none of my friends know about the show, and so i like reading your "discussions"
i have to go with rewinding the time, i'll simply say what has been said before that spike was chosen he did not do it for buffy.
truth be told,spike has risen in my mind in the last season... but i still believe that angel would have done the same in chosen if it was his burden to carry but i donot think spike would do what angel did in I Will Remember You
never mind going through hell
I mean, seriously, he's left her how many times, he destroyed the Ring of Amara [I apologize for the misspelling], he turned back time without even considering the possibility that Buffy might not die. The man--er, vampire is destined to punish himself into oblivion. I think he has a complex and I think he left Buffy to punish himself just as much as to "save" her. Bah! Who needs him! Spike's the pretty one anyhow. :]
look at the amount spike has taken off buffy in the years, with glory, when buffy thought she has killed katrina, and he never once faltered cause he knew buffy was more important than him
spike was going though some serious literal hell for her, and as a demon he didn't even understand why, wouldn't you be calling her a bitch? and he has always called her that even when he never meant it
sorry scififan i love you too but i don't agree :)
Maybe we all should just agree to disagree :) Then again these debates are so much fun...I just love going around in circles, all of us very devoted to our side and none of us giving any ground to the "enemy" :) It's amazing...then again...if we don't agree to disagre, someone might start doing the *debs pulls out gun and shoots sciffifan* thing. Ahead of time, I'm comming back as a ghost to see justice delivered and to continue adovcating for Bangel...
I really need to stop using elipses :)
spike would not have done the same things as angel but angel would not have done the same things as spike, as they're both completely different, but that's the reason why i like spuffy so much, spike may be what some bangel fans consider 'selfish' but i still would never want to be with a guy who leave because it's apparently the right thing for me
By the way, dunno if I've said it before but I also thought that Angel had to leave. They needed to break them up otherwise it would've just gone round in circles...that doesn't mean I wouldn't want them to end up together though, after Shanshu and cookie dogh and all that.
Angel explains why he destroys the ring of Amara, so he doesn't become complacent about his existence. The people in the daytime have people who look out for them, the people that Angel is looking out for don't.
In my eyes all points regarding Spuffy are all good, I just don't believe that they would ever happen. Glory beating on Spike...hell, he'd tell her within seconds where the key was and watch as Glory dismantled Dawn (which would've done us all a favour). : )
I didn't hate Angel and Cordy either, found it to be a little forced at times in Season 3 but I didn't hate it.
that is how the buffyverse works, if yu don't think demons can love, then fair enough but they can in buffy so just accept it!
why would spike do that? spike is basically as hard as! he is one of the hardest vampire that's why he always has his own gang, so spike wouldn't telling glory jack whether he loved buffy or not, out of principle and reputation and just because he doesn't like glory
remember he helped save the world before on the fact that he didn't want it to end
i do agree that cordy and angel took a bit of a leap at one point but apart from that there realtionship was the steadiest growing of them all
Fair point on Spike not telling Glory anything to protect his own rep and due to his own stubborness, I can accept that.
the vampires can feel hatred, jealousy and love, even if it's sick and twisted and not the same as human love
he goes to get his soul
what show have you been watching?
This was so cute! Spike does such great things for Buffy!
and the spike getting his soul. he didnt intentionally go to get his soul. he wanted to give buffy what she deserved, which he wanted to KILL HER! and when he did get his soul, if he wanted it, he wouldnt have tried to cut it out. (REMEMBER THE SLASH MARKS ON HIS CHEST) i just dont beleve spike loved her.
as for the scratch marks he was driven insane with guilt and the first, it didn't mean anything
And here, since like debs, that's pissing me off.
We knew, the whole time, from the very beginning he was gonna go get a soul. And when he says "I want Buffy to have what she deserves", he means a lover with a soul. -- Jane Espenson (The Succubus Club, 5-02)
okay angel is a really good character (when he's not with buffy also) it's just you banglers can't see that what angel did was wrong he treats buffy... well like as he would treat a girl from his time, he doesn't think buffy can handle decisions, he should have talked to her first
also note angel's 'act of love' saved himself, spike's sacrificed himself and it was for buffy, spike would have staked himself long ago were it not for buffy, spike would have never got his soul were it not for buffy, spike would have never gone in to this huge battle were it not for buffy, he wouldn't have even wanted the medallion were it not for his ego over buffy and angel
many times before he has put his own safety in danger for buffy and the ones she loved, if he had died in the gift or intervention it would be have been for buffy...when it comes down to it that's all he has
Ahhhh!
I think the last 3 :)
I thought that this showed that angel will do ANYTHING! Spike died to destroy the hellmouth not for buffys love. Even in the end when he dies buffy says I love you but he doesnt believe her. Why the hell would he die if he thinks that she doesn't love him? uhm maybe to destroy the hellmouth. The soul getting back was touching but what did he give up? His bad-to-the-bone attitude...OH WHAT A SHAME!!! Is that a valid reason to think that he gave up more for buffy? I don't think so. I'm a bangel but I love Spike and Buffy too. But this is just common sense people.
he's not giving up his bad ass attitude he fought and went against everything he has, it's the equiviliant of buffy giving up her soul for spike....actually it's worst because he now has to carry around all the guilt as a constant pain, not to mention everything he suffered through the trials
spike wanted buffy to go, he wanted buffy to get out of the hellmouth that was collapsing around them, he gave up his last moments of happiness in this life to literally burn in hell, everything spike does in buffy is about buffy, him getting his soul, him always fighting by her side and he sides with her no matter what
P.s. Angel & Angelus were two different people? Why do you think that? I know alot of people say that but Spike was the same person with or without a soul, only he didn't have a "badass name" to blame everything on. Angel did all of those things. Angel wanted to kill Buffy too, both Angel & Spike did terrible things to Buffy without a soul. Why does Angels get forgiven because he did them with a "us" added to the end of his name?
For me, the order is, from greatest act of love to worst (for want of a better word, since none of these are bad obviously!):
1. Angel turning back time
2. Angel leaving Sunnydale
3. Spike getting his soul back
4. Spike dying at the end of 'Chosen'
The reason for this is not because I'm biased towards Bangel, but because I do not consider Spike's actions as acts of love, at least not in the same way as Angel's. They were undoubtedly great acts, but in my opinion they weren't acts of love.
Angel turning back time: completely selfless action, done in order to save Buffy's life. He gave up not only his chance to be with her, but also his dream of becoming human again, because he could not imagine living in a world without her in it and because he values her life and safety far above his own happiness. That is love.
Angel leaving: Tragic, again. I cried so much haha! But again, his leaving is motivated by love for Buffy, by selflessness, because he sees the way that his presence in her life stops her from achieving her dream of normalcy and left in order to allow her to try and achieve this dream. Again, this is a selfless, amazing act of love because he gives up his happiness, and the only place he has been happy in a century, in order to give her a chance at happiness. He loves her entirely, and does not want to leave, but he does so for her.
3. I don't agree that Spike getting his soul back was an act of love. Firstly because I don't believe he can love at this point, since he does not have a soul, but this is just a technicality. The principle reason that I don't class this as an act of love for Buffy is that it was a selfish act in that he didn't do it FOR her, he did it because he wanted something FROM her - he did it because of what he hoped to gain as a result, not to make her happy etc. He states this to her when he tells her that he got his soul back so that she would forgive him and love him - a selfish motivation. I'm aware that most acts probably do have some selfish motivation, but in this case what Spike wanted from her was the primary motivation for this action, which in my eyes means it is not an act of love for Buffy in the same selfless way as Angel's are.
Spike dying: a noble act, a brilliant (temporary) end to the character's arc. But not an act of love, because he did it to save the world, not for Buffy. I'm sure she was a part of why he wanted to save the world, but his principle motivation was that he wanted to save the world and prove to everyone, himself included, that he was a good 'man'. Besides, even if this is refuted, it does not rank higher than any of Angel's actions because there is no way that Angel wouldn't have done the same in his position.
The arguments made about Spike getting tortured by Glory/beaten by Buffy: again, Angel would have done the same, and has offered/risked his life countless times for Buffy's, just as Spike has - not only when he gave back his life (his humanity) in exchange for hers (how cruel of Joss et al to then kill her anyway!!), but also, for example, when he tried to get the Judge to kill him instead of Buffy, or when he tried to commit suicide so he wouldn't hurt Buffy. etc etc
and i admit the following deate is because i am totally biased towards spuffy lol
I do see how angel rewinding time is a sacrifice for him but it annoys me, he should have talked to buffy about it, this is one of the reason i'm not fond of bangel i always get the feeling like he treats her like he knows better.
If your boyfriend made a big decisions with out you, with out even considering you had the smarts to make the right choice, wouldn't you feel angry, i don't see this as a act of love i kind of see it has a act of ignorance and self rightousness. I'm not saying angel just did it because he thought he knew best but the fact that this was a decision that ddirectly altered buffy's memory (just like with tara and willow in season six of buffy) and he didn't tell her, it angers me.
again i see angel leaving as a similar sort of thing, it maddened me how he treated her, don't get me wrong i'm glad he did leave because he had, had his run on buffy and the show angel is amazing but it angered me again how he treated buffy
There is a whole thing with the soul and weather demons can love or not, but joss, other writers and many characters have said that spike and dru were in love so if a vampire can love another vampire then they can love and i tend to always agree with our master aka mr joss whedon lol
also yes he did it for himself so he could be with her but he also risked his life, eternal hell and went through a whole lot of pain emotionally and physically as well as going against a lot of his own principles just to be in her life and try and make her happy. It's because he doesn't have a soul at the time as to why he can't see as to why this isn't quite right or why it won't work out but at the time i don't believe it was selfish because of the amount of sacrifice
spike dying is a funny one, yes he did it to save the whole but the whole reason as to why he was in that fight, as to why he had a soul pretty much everything spike ever did season five onwards was ultimatly for buffy and there's no greater sacrifice that dying
yes angel would have probably done the same but spike would have also never ever gone back to LA
The arguements for spike and glory is because yes angel would have done the same but for his concisous because he wouldn't be ale to let another human like dawn be hurt because he would feel guilt where as spike did it completly for buffy
phew my first buffy rant in months....feels good lol
I don't get these Bangel people at all!
Angel didn't do shit as way of acts of love!
All he did was leave...wow he must really love her...? uhmm i think not
Spike clearly loved Buffy far more than Angel did!
I mean he went through hell to get his soul back just for her!
Time and time again he was there for her, helping her, he stuck by her side when everyone else had turned against her, instead of walking away and leaving her like Angel did.
I believe that he did save the world for her, if he didn't care about her so much he never would have turned "good" in the first place.
After hurting her, Angel chose not to stand by Buffy's side in order to protect her from himself [basically he didn't trust his own self-control]. And so she could have a 'normal life'. Disregarding the fact that as the slayer, there was no way in hell she was ever going to have a normal life.
After hurting her, Spike chose to change himself so that he could continue to stand by Buffy's side without hurting her. And then he died in a battle to save the world because Buffy told him she believed in him and chose him as her champion. When Buffy says that she loves him and he says that she doesn't...I think he believes that. Which makes his continuing love for her even more beautiful. As he told her in Touched...he doesn't love her because he's expecting something from her...he just loves her for who she is. And in S7 that's why he stands by her side...to be there for her, whatever she needs. Not because he expects her to love him back and be with him.
Spike= selfish
Buffy= Loves the Hero but can't be with him..
Cares about the selfish, but won't be with him.
Angel is "I love you, you're the only light in my life, But yet..I don't think I deserve you..You need more than all this dark.. I MUST leave you..But one day it's gonna happen because our love will be forever and in the memory of you I'll work to get my life back..and we'll walk both under the sun"
Spike is" What the hell baby I bloody luv ya..I'd do everything for you..except leaving you..even if you deserve more, because If I leave I'll die without you.. Who cares about what I did that's ok right? If I love the slayer I love the world right? Let's have some great sex"
hahahaha
And he was not all "Oh so everything's ok now right?" No, he admitted that what he did was wrong and nothing could make it right. And then there's what he said to Buffy in 'Touched';
I've been alive a bit longer than you, and dead a lot longer than that. I've seen things you couldn't imagine, and done things I'd prefer you didn't. I don't exactly have a reputation for being a thinker; I follow my blood, which doesn't exactly rush in the direction of my brain. So I make a lot of mistakes. A lot of wrong bloody calls. A hundred plus years, and there's only one thing I've ever been sure of. You. Hey, look at me. I'm not asking you for anything. When I say I love you, it's not because I want you, or because I can't have you - it has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try... I've seen your kindness, and your strength, I've seen the best and the worst of you and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.
Right there- in black and white. He's telling Buffy that he loves her but that he expects nothing in return. He's not even saying maybe somewhere down the line you'll love me and we can be together. He's saying his love is unconditional. It took him a long time to get to that point...but IMO that's one of the main reasons that I prefer Spuffy over Bangel. It's more realistic, less of a fairy tale.
I'm a big dreamer and Spuffy, maybe, was too "realistic" for me...
I prefer sweet-Angel than sexy-Spike (who isn't that hot in my opinion -.-).
Please if u think I'm wrong don't write bad comments
I think he loved Buffy in the 7th seas. And the quotes you said are true..even to me. I believed him and blushed xS..But it's not that easy.. IWRY our great BAngel episode is about that..Angel..did the right thing leaving her..You think he wanted to? BIG NO..he loves her more than himself..that's why he wanted to be a MAN through Shanshu and forgiveness... Spike started all this when he died for sunnyhell..And besides he didn't suffer the burdon "I could have had everything. But it wasn't the right time. She needs a MAN not a vampire" Spike was and is a vampire .with a soul he becomes a real soldier and can start his redemption like Angel..but he has to give up on Buffy too! WHY? Because if he really loves her..he should offer her a part of normal life..fighting for humanity (I think that the Joss-story was like this , but spuffy don't really get it and ruined it).. After they're both human and not lame, dark or brooding..she'd choose.
I'm sure she'd choose Angel, you can think what you want, of course.
How their hands were on fire and she told him she loved him.
And especially how he was the only champion that could do it.
Haha, I love multi posts.
I know!! The only explanation Ihave for that is he had an US at the end of his name, hence why it doesnt count. If the writers called him Spikeyus then they wouldnt count either.
And I don't even wanna hear about the whole attempted rape thing, sorry, but soulles Angel tortured Buffy's friends, killed Jenny and attempted to kill Buffy's mom - a person Buffy loved more than anyone in the world. Soulles Angel caused Buffy more pain than soulles Spike was ever capable of causing. And Angelus would NEVER feel the guilt and try to bring his soul back to be with Buffy.
Soulles Spike kept his promise to take care fo Dawn when Buffy was dead. It was not about impressing Buffy anymore. It was about him selflessly loving her and respecting her memory. And Angel WITH a soul was not even there for Dawn and Buffy's friends that summer. Isn't it what the loving man should do?
And finally, nothing can beat Spike's getting his soul for Buffy EVER, becasue he was the first vampire who ever did this. for LOVE. For Buffy.
S4: He went to Buffy, instead of getting out of town or gathering minions. For Something Blue, the spell never said they had to fall in love, just get married. Also, Buffy seemed to really enjoy teasing Spike, and they fought like an old married couple. Die, Riley, die.
S5: He watched over her to keep her safe. Fool for Love described Spike perfectly, he really is a fool for love. Also, before the fight, he accepted she'll never love him, accepting instead how she doesn't act like she hates him anymore.
Beginning of S6: 147 days. He memorized it. My theory is, he probably wanted to die, because his love was gone from his life. The only thing keeping him back was his last promise to Buffy, keeping Dawn safe. For the record, I think he and Dawn are like brother/sister.
S6-7: Buffy hurt Spike so much, and he took it all just for her to be happy. Then, when he finally snapped, he was horrified. You could see it in his expression. So, he went and fought through grueling tasks, went through horrible torture, and regained his soul. All for the woman he loved, to try and give her what she deserved. Afterwords, he went insane, and who brought him out of it? Buffy. When Buffy thought she was completely abandoned, Spike came and told her how he loved her, but expected nothing in return (in a speech that nearly made me cry), then just held her as she slept. Then, when he was about to close the Hellmouth, she grabbed his hand (and the hands went aflame, now that's love) and told him she loved him. But she had hurt him to much for him to believe it. He then went laughing to his death, but only after making sure Buffy was safe. He saved the world for her. Sure, he liked the world, but the main reason was for Buffy.
Note: When Spike got back, one of the first things he asked was where Buffy was.
AntiBangel:
When Spike had no soul, he was helplessly in love with Buffy and did everything he could for her. Then, he hardly changed after he got his soul. When Angel had no soul, he got a whole new name and personality. What the heck? Angelus killed Jenny to hurt Buffy, threatened her, tried to kill her, etc. Spike got his soul, let her use him, and took care of Dawn. Also, Buffy was young when she met Angel. They had the whole first love thing going. He was basically her safety net. A Slayer does not need a safety net. Slayer's are strong, are warriors, are heroes. And they need strong warriors who are heroes beside them. Sure, Angel can be that, but instead he left her. As if she didn't know what she needed herself. Spike is all the adjectives I said Slayers are, almost never leaves (and when he does, he comes back), and is just a good partner for Buffy.
Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, the time reversal thing. Did all of forget that's not a act of love? It was a random event that Angel got to be human. Then, he reversed it because he neeed to save the world. In my opinion, Buffy was WAY OOC in that episode. Just throwing herself in the arms of Angel because, yay! He's human! Then, she forgot and was angry at him again. That's how I prefer it.
Now, I an go on for hours (I kind of want to) but I think I'll stop now.
SPUFFY RULES ALL.
Spike only cares about the frickin' world 'cause Buffy's in it!Both of Angel's romantic things just made him more of a jackass!
Spike would, willingly, live with the guilt that a soul brings for her. Angel just pouts and broods.
Him leaving is what made me really hate him! It's not romantic people!The second he wasn't a vamp anymore, he just goes back to her anyway! He must know it can't possibly work.
And turnig back time... I know it sounded like he was doing it for the world, but he was doing it to save his own skin, that jerk.
Spike is a Champion. Angel is a ponce who listens to Barry Manilow, and uses too much hair gel.
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